IGDA Twin Cities
▬ 📻 Nice Games Club ▬▬▬ / nicegamesclub-chat
Talk about the latest episodes of "Nice Games Club," and continue the discussion on topics from the show, here!
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1https://www.polygon.com/2020/7/27/21340199/herman-miller-logitech-embody-gaming-chair-impressions 
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And just so I'm not pretending I know something and I'm wrong -- holistic design simply refers to design every aspect of the game together, considering how the game play, art, sound, etc tie in together and support each other right?
), and I don't have anyone in my circle who is in gamedev. Hence the original question... I just don't really know what most people do, to be honest. 2
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which was great
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but I want to at least see where being serious gets me.
I don't know how well this translates to game architecture, but we've had a lot of success in enterprise software engineering with building this monotholic structure out of smaller pieces of distinct components. It makes applying new lessons and technology a lot easier, because you can do it with a small piece first and roll it out as you go. I don't have enough experience with big games to say if that can translate. I mean I don't think you can make a game out of microservices.
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. I do like to follow along and think on them, and I might just take the inspiration from one and use it for a project that I don't submit.
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Begins October 3rd
All skill levels
There's no competitive element, so focus on making wholesome games and meeting new friends!
@itchio: https://t.co/y5LUB2erYl
@discord: https://t.co/euZtb19iUo https://t.co/oNGwyOqI66
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1 1 1And so it is that you by reason of your tender regard for the writing that is your offspring have declared the very opposite of its true effect. If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls. They will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks. 1
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https://i.imgur.com/fEjsswZ.gif
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Mostly, I hate sports culture more than I hate sports. There's a lot of common wisdom and associated thinking that goes along with sports that bothers me. I can't get into the idea of rooting for one team over the other, for example. I also don't particularly value or admire superlative performance. 2 1 1 1
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My biggest message here is: we need more in person events again so the excitement of Special episodes can flow. Somebody get on that. 1 - Me hoping Mark's site can handle the weight of all my F5ing for episode 200 1
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1 Thank you, I was an artist and game designer for mobile games. 1 1 1 1 1
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who would be the 5th ninja turtle anyway? 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 2
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1 4 1 hope you can talk more details on Closed Hands once it's out! 1
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1. It makes you get really creative. 1 1 2 1 Have you all come up with more winners since the original jam? Have you all come up with more winners since the original jam? 3 1
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One thought — I think it'd be interesting to hear the EGC crew talk to someone who can speak on the 'git gud' mentality. 1) 1 2 1 1
1 I think it was a Game Makers Toolkit, or maybe a Gamasutra post I read, that broke down Celeste's platforming mechanics
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Yeah, that game is the GOAT. Still learning from it. The little pause-and-shake when you dash is visceral in a way I can't quite replicate. 1 1 1
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1 1 . I didn't play it much, but we immediately ditched co-op mode when I played with my kid (who was 4-5 at the time). As the hat, she was just not able to cooperate and was bored by only controlling the hat. She wanted to be mario! As mario... she wanted to throw the hat lol.
Eventually I let her play herself and she just likes jumping around as frogs 1
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Viability Space an old coworker of mine gave a really good talk at GDC some years ago about how balancing characters in fighting games work and how you arrive at having completely dominant characters/options. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miu3ldl-nY4 2
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1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 Gee I dunno, I tend to not take risks on games that don't have good opinion because of limited time.
I will give a shoutout to Fortnite, not because it's an underdog or anything, but it gets crapped on a lot in "Real Gamer" circles and I think it's one of the best battle-royale style games I've dabbled in.♂️ — a lot of that could be the clunkiness. I'm in a similar boat (never get more than an hour or so into Dark Souls why I try it but enjoy Hollow Knight), where I think the snappier controls in HK make it a lot more palatable. — a lot of that could be the clunkiness. I'm in a similar boat (never get more than an hour or so into Dark Souls why I try it but enjoy Hollow Knight), where I think the snappier controls in HK make it a lot more palatable. I'm interested in being involved if there's space and interest!) 1 1 that was one of the inspirations for my project
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Knocked out 4 or 5 items on my to-do list (created 3 more bugs but... Still...) 2 1 )
Knocked out 4 or 5 items on my to-do list (created 3 more bugs but... Still...) 1
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I was thinking about this the other day while playing Immortals... I actually really enjoy platforming challenges. Most "platformers" are less about pure platforming and more about fighting enemies and i dont care about that i guess.
Shoutout to Celeste of course.
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1 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 But on the plus side, these folks are up to playtest my other games at the drop of a hat, so they do support my experimentation quite a bit. 1 1
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Supporting a local small business 3 1
I'm also considering derailing that work for a couple of days to polish up an "old school light vector" inspired arcade shooter I al but finished a few weeks ago. (What I have of it I literally made in like two days after the last Ludum Dare.) 1 1
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With regard to public speaking, there's an astonishingly efficient trick to getting started. I learned about this by way of Hunter S Thompson, who said he typed out The Great Gatsby to "know what it's like to write a masterpiece."
I don't fancy myself an amazing speaker, but I went from being a 3/10 to a 6/10 very quickly by finding some talks that I thought were expertly done and copying them, word for word, using the same inflection as the speaker.
So much of any skill is having a ready bag of tricks you can pull from, and I haven't found a faster way to fill that bag than by directly mirroring people with greater skill. 2 1 https://t.co/h4mvP8Avbt
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div and a div can be anything if you CSS it hard enough. It thinks it's both fully abstracted and comprehensibly semantic at the same time, which is cute. 3 3 3 1 My wife has been chuckling at me a little bit all morning because I keep muttering under my breath about how "... I can't believe that works" and "this seems too easy" etc.
I'm NOT saying it IS easy, just that compared to Unity dev at least, this is just like... my god... Things just keep working the first or second time I try them. And gdscript is REALLY good about telling me exactly what I messed up. Not just like "hey, a thing is busted, you should probably do something about that yeah? Here's a list of like 8,000 possible reasons it might not be working." like the debug log in Unity does.
I'm just very happy about this, and glad y'all encouragingly nudged me toward it. I think I might be all-in on Godot at this point and it's only like, Day 2 (of course it could just be that I haven't had to deal with the devils yet, but I can't imagine they could possible be worse than Unity's). 1 1
(Clearly the background doesn't work with the character having such a dark outline, but c'mon... ;P) 
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The most memorable difficulty wall for me was probably in Super Metroid where you have to blow up this glass hallway to get into Maridia. I realize that's not, like, a "combat" wall but I was completely stuck in the game at that point and had no clue what to do. And then, in a brief screenshot in a commercial for the game while I was watching cartoons I saw Samus use a Super Bomb in that hallway and watched the glass shatter, granting access to the area. My mind was blown. I stopped what I was doing and booted up the SNES, and never looked back. :) 3 1 1 1 2
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3 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 I'm still lurking and stuff but life has sucked away all my project time sadly :< but I'm warmed to know you think of me still 
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Mechanics are rocky though (e.g. strong vicious or virtuous cycle mechanics that can make runs either easy or impossible), so it should be quite a ride to see what they do with it. 1
#StephenIsAGenius
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:cymbal:) over time. One bit I wanted to add, just for completeness, is that debug logs have some extra benefits after an app goes live. The logs stick around on the user's device, and you can set it up so they can send those logs when they send a support ticket. 1 3 1 1
2 2 1 1 2 1 4 1 it's been both fun and refreshing to have something to really focus my time on 1
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My one minor complaint about the game is that the zones didn't seem as graphically varied as in the other Metroid games I'd played. When travelling between zones, I was like "oh the gray industrial one, or the other gray industrial one". But again -- only three hours in -- maybe there's a good reason for that. 2 1 1 1 2
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We cover all stages from translation, to voice recordings and linguistic testing in +24 languages.
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Anyway, what brings you in? Any episode that particularly struck your fancy? It was the Fingeance episode wasn't it. 1 1 2 1
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3) Given the updates to the recording space:
a. How many times did y'all roll into the space and listen to how weird it is when all the reverb is sucked out of a room?
b. How many fires did Mark start with that hole drill? 1 1 2 3 1 1 2
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1 1 1 4 3 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 . Tons of great YouTube content out there to get started :) 1 1 5 3 3 2 1 1 1 1 3 1 4 1 1
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Then... by the time you're done with the second 90%, it feels like the game is the same game it was when you finished the first 90%, and that sucks. It feels just as nearly finished as it did before... but now it actually is closer to being finished.
If you have a strong production workflow and/or a project manager, you can avoid a lot of this stuff, but when you're working on your own or without any structure, that second 90% is a surprise every time.
Now, the third 90% is might just be my joke rather than a thing other people say, but it's stuff that's even less fun, like setting up build/patch workflows, going though console cert, localizing, final QA, optimizing build size, triple-checking the credits page, double-checking contributor licenses and release forms, setting up the Steam page... all the things you need to do to actually release a commercial game in the world.
Of course, this more of a way of contextualizing the things you see and feel as you make a game than any kind of actual production concept, but if you see your project that way, it helps you prepare for the crushing stress and sorrow that comes as you slog your way though the second (or third) 90%.
Widget Satchel took almost exactly 2 calendar years from concept to release, and we spent the first year making the game and the second year finishing it. I would have had a much better time in that last year if I knew then what I know now. 1 3 1 2 2 I don't feel badly about this game at all 4 2 1 1 5 3
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We hope that everyone is staying safe, and we encourage everyone to get vaccinated if & when they can.
We miss you all so much! 
Damage = Chonk
Consume = Chug
Forge = Change
Discard = Chuck
Shuffle = Churn
Bosses = Champs
Minions = Chumps
Gain a VP = Cha-ching 6
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so... is 60 cacti too many? 3 1 so... is 60 cacti too many? 
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I'm in the UK, so cacti are definitely indoor plants. I had them on a sunny windowsill for a long time. I think it helps that I almost never remember to water them, so there's no risk at all of overwatering and dampness problems. I wouldn't say they are doing well apart from still being alive, which is maybe well enough.
I stopped keeping them on the windowsill after my neighbour at the time (a plant biologist) pointed out that even cacti can suffer from sun damage eventually if you neglect to water them for long enough - it had probably been a few months since the last watering and several of the cacti showed signs of bleaching (and probably 10-20 of them died at this point). They won't grow without direct sunlight, but they also need even less water this way, so I figure it's good enough. I'm a terrible plant parent 
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2️ challenge up in #general-discussion 2
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Ellen: <dubious infatuation with tomatoes> 1 1 1 2 2 1
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Nice games club chat truly has it all. 1 2 1
️ <smacks you on the nose> — why don't you take that opinion, throw it in with the mushrooms, and put it in the bin out back? 1 1 1 1 1 1
Os will become solid blocks, -s will become platforms, gs will become goombas, and *s will become pickups. Go crazy."
...you can get a lot more out of those people on certain kinds of games. 2 1 1 1 1
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Martin - Like Mark, I'm also impressed at your games-played log. I'll try to make time to read your blog post!
Regarding journaling relating to the games I'm working on, you brought up good points. As far as why we didn't bring it up on the episode, my only defense is that it didn't occur to me! I do keep those types of journals, but I don't think of them as journals. To me, they're "lab notes" or a "sketchbook" for informal analysis and work-in-progress. It's a similar thing—writing to reflect, to analyze, & to promote creativity. My "lab notes" aren't only written notes, though; they also include actual sketches and Miro stuff.
Sometimes the material I write in my "sketchbook" is very unstructured and stream-of-consciousness. Sometimes it's thorough and carefully written—those pieces often turn into actionable Jira tickets for the team or parts of the Game Design Doc. 1 5 1
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3 1 2 1 5 1 2 1 5 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 2), it's cool to have some media a bit less reliant on the grid. 2 1 1 1 2 ACKTCHUALLY 2 2
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Don't know if I can put this here or not. But Nice Games Club definitely keeps me motivated in learning to make my own games and thought I might share my first game.
Started the Godot tutorial and sort of turned it into my own thing. A quick little arcade game you can play on your phone or computer.
https://jakey-mg.itch.io/kalimari
Thanks for keeping me motivated!
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also dont know if it was intended but the background's missing on the mobile version; overall it was a fun play, keep it up dawg
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Stephen: ...for the year 5
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When there's disagreement over a definition, I expect to find multiple different "predictive axes". That is, there will be multiple scales where one side of the scale feels "more minigamey" and the other feels "less minigamey", and the disagreement will be over which axis is most important.
For minigames, we have at least these:
1.) Mechanical abstraction from rest of game.
Looking at all the mechanics in the game like a set of neurons, how tightly clustered are the mechanics of the subgame, and how much do they connect to the rest of the mechanics?
On this axis, something like "Meetings in Among Us" is pretty densely connected to the rest of the game, because any observed behavior can influence the discussion, and the discussion outcome has a strong effect on both who lives into the next phase and who you're watching. Meanwhile "Lockpicking in Skyrim" is pretty sparsely connected, since you have few inputs (skill points, lockpick count) and few outputs (pass/fail, lockpicks spent, points gained) compared to the scale of Skyrim. "Celeste Classic" is very abstracted away from Celeste, since actions in one don't matter at all in the other (except any Strawberries you earn in CC).
2.) User control distinction from rest of game.
How different are the controls here compared to the rest of the game?
On this axis, "Meetings in Among Us" is pretty distinct! So is something like "Motion Control Puzzles in BotW". Meanwhile, "Celeste Classic" uses very similar controls to Celeste.
3.) Importance to completing game.
How essential is this activity to completing the game, or to completing significant objectives? This overlaps a bit with #1, but not entirely.
This came up in the episode. Stephen mentioned that "Lockpicking in Skyrim" feels like less of a minigame because it's linked to things you're trying to achieve. Similarly, "Minigames in Mario Party" can be pretty important to the overall game outcome. On the other hand, "Fishing in Link's Awakening" might be considered more of a minigame on this axis, since it's not important. "Chess in Assassin's Creed 4" maxes this out, since it isn't important at all.
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I suggest that most people probably believe that #1 Mechanical Abstraction is the most important axis, but difference in the weights people put on these will lead to things feeling more or less "like a minigame" to them. 1 2
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Also, to answer the question about the future of the Discord, I think having it live in a Noble Robot discord sever makes sense 1 1 1 1 can't say that I did xP 1
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!important keyword like it'll solve all your problems but it's the nuclear option that only results in armageddon. 
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Cookeshi is on hold at the moment (Deanna was offered a contract she couldn't refuse) but it's one of those projects that we'll never be able to stop working on until it's released 2) 
!important then hoo boy do I have a strong opinion about that. !important inherently nukes the cascade order and makes it unpredictable, and thus no one should ever use it. The only times I ever allow it at work are cases where some external code used it and prevented us from resolving things naturally. 1 2!important then hoo boy do I have a strong opinion about that. 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1
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New @Zack Content engine discussion leaves a little room for Spellscale talk. 
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SURPRISE!
My @NiceGamesClub team
and I have a card game coming
out... in two weeks!!!
It's a party word game, but smarter! Objective scoring. Silly and thoughtful!
Pre-order "Glom" NOW!! Out June 14th!
(also please RT and tell yr frands!)
https://t.co/XjM6rFUEOt
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Phrase: Who's that pokemon?!
Rule: No word over four letters long.
Goal: Most of the same letter.
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For today, let's go back in time to a Glom playtest build.
Here are your cards:
Everyone's set? Soon something begins 1 Everyone's set? Soon something begins 3 2
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just testing the hidden text before I post my glom |hidden| 2 my glom is: As the hawk spots the crock it not at all stews 1 5
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||(like this!)||
Videos and Purchase Options: https://nicegames.club/glom
Here are your cards:
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Far-fetched fantasy. 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
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Best wishes to everyone, and especially our nice hosts showing the game over at Origins. Shout out to @Peter Yang - ZettoVyker who is also out there today, and helped connect Glom with Indie Boards and Cards.
Rules: Re-word the sentence on the Phrase card. Don't use any words in the original Phrase, and don't break the Rule! You can try to score more by following the Goal card.
Also, you can do spoiler text (like this!) with double pipes 
||(like this!)||
Videos and Purchase Options: https://nicegames.club/glom
Here are today's cards:
2
Best wishes to everyone, and especially our nice hosts showing the game over at Origins. Shout out to @Peter Yang - ZettoVyker who is also out there today, and helped connect Glom with Indie Boards and Cards.
Rules: Re-word the sentence on the Phrase card. Don't use any words in the original Phrase, and don't break the Rule! You can try to score more by following the Goal card.
Also, you can do spoiler text (like this!) with double pipes ||(like this!)||
Videos and Purchase Options: https://nicegames.club/glom
Here are today's cards: 1 1 1 5 1 1 2 1 3 1 1 1
2 1||(like this!)||
Videos and Purchase Options: https://nicegames.club/glom
Here are today's cards:
3 1 2 1 1 
2
1 1 1) on your end? I wouldn't wanna repeat effort if a digital version is in the works. If not, any huge qualms provided I don't share it broadly?) 3 1 1 1 1 3 1
1 1 3 2 2 2
2 2
1 1 ) 1
1 2 2 1 1 1 4 3||(like this!)||
Videos and Purchase Options: https://nicegames.club/glom
Here are today's cards. Spoiler tags up for anyone who wants to play "Reverse Glom" (guessing the prompt from the answers): 3||(like this!)||
Here are today's cards: 1
1 3 2 1 1 1 
1
Rules: Re-word the sentence on the Phrase card. Don't use any words in the original Phrase, and don't break the Rule! You can try to score more by following the Goal card. For more, see here: https://nicegames.club/glom
Do spoiler text (like this!) with double pipes 
||(like this!)||
Here are today's cards:
4 4 1
1 1 5 1 2 3 1
2um stephen you appear to have voilated the rule in a couple of places 1 2 1
1 1 2 1 1 1
1 2
1 1 1 2 1 1
8 2 1 1 3
